Jacob Moore Interview
The importance of the blog era in the early aughts can’t be understated. At a time when music was becoming more accessible than ever, blogs became the go-to for those looking to cut through the noise and discover the best new artists and tracks. Among such sites was Pigeons & Planes, an early champion of many of today’s top acts. In the 10-plus years since its creation, the site has undergone a massive transformation. Vivid Seats spoke with Jacob Moore, the Founder and General Manager of Pigeons & Planes, to discuss the creation of one of music’s top sites, the state of music and what’s next.
Vivid Seats: Pigeons and Planes comes from humble beginnings. What is it like looking back on your journey from bedroom blogger to Founder and General Manager of a prominent music brand?
Jacob Moore: I'm really proud of everything Pigeons & Planes has accomplished. When I look back, I'm especially proud of all the artists we highlighted early who ended up using that early attention to take things to another level.
I'm also proud that we were able to evolve. So many other brands get stuck in one scene or one genre. As music evolved, so did Pigeons & Planes. We were always looking ahead, trying to understand where music is going and how we can help push things forward instead of trying to capitalize off of what is already popular. The range of artists Pigeons & Planes championed early is something I take pride in: Young Thug, Billie Eilish, Brockhampton, Chance The Rapper, Lorde, Smino, Ski Mask The Slump God, Khalid, Post Malone, Clairo, 6LACK and many more.
At the same time, I'm never content with where P&P is at. I know there's so much more we could be doing, and I have so many ideas for new goals and new projects. We're still figuring it out and I'm so hungry. We can do so much more.
VS: When did you know the blog was more than just a passion project? Was there a specific turning point?
JM: Pigeons & Planes is still a passion project. Look, we are owned by Complex now, partnering with major corporations and working behind the scenes on some really large-scale projects. This is my full-time job and I take that seriously. I want to do good business and be a team player and make sure this brand is sustainable for years to come. At the same time, the passion aspect is more important than anything to me. Without that and integrity, none of it matters to me. If I ever feel that fading I'll go do something else.
I believe strongly that if you've got the right combination of passion, quality, innovation, credibility, and consistency, everything else will fall into place. Of course there are a million other things that go into it and there will be ups and downs, roadblocks and pivots, but I try to stay focused on the big picture. I'm not so worried about each small step, I just always try to keep things moving. P&P has made so many missteps over the years, but we learn from it and recalibrate. If I was purely focused on building a brand or making money from the beginning, I don't think it would have worked out.
I went years working so hard on P&P every single day with zero expectations. That was the foundation of this brand and I think that perspective still informs how we operate today. It's the same shit you see with a lot of start-ups, especially in the music industry. Sometimes it's just about creating a platform, a presence, and a following and building that as high as you can before you start exploiting it for profit. If you do a good job and wait for the right moment, you'll have way more leverage and much better opportunities.
VS: Since finding a new home at Complex Media, Pigeons and Planes has expanded into new forms of content. How do you see the brand continuing to evolve?
JM: There are so many possibilities, but my big picture vision for P&P is beyond content. I love content and I love the creative process of storytelling in different ways, whether that's editorial, video, or social media. But for us, content has always just been a way to highlight music we love. I think we can apply that curation in so many other ways. We've done it with the concerts we've produced, but we can do so much more. I'd like to do more real-life activations and experience-based projects, and I'd also like to do more behind-the-scenes work. Already working on some of that right now and there are so many things I can't wait to share in 2020.
VS: You've also brought the blog to life with the No Ceilings concert series. How did you decide to start putting on live shows, and what has that experience been like?
JM: No Ceilings has been amazing, and those shows have been some of my favorite memories attached to the brand. We did the first headlining NYC shows of so many great artists (Dominic Fike, Beabadoobee, 6LACK, Noname), and created an environment where music fans actually come to discover something. It's not just about seeing the headlining act, it's about coming and seeing four artists on the rise. Especially in NYC, that's rare. New York audiences are so hard on new artists, but the energy at No Ceilings is always really positive and supportive.
We're going to do more with the IRL experiences and the No Ceilings brand. That's definitely one of the most exciting things to me and to be honest, I'm getting tired of the internet.
VS: You've talked openly about how adapting the brand to up-and-coming platforms is important, like streaming and new socials. What's been the most recent trend P&P has jumped on?
JM: We started a TikTok account, but I don't know where that's going. I think it's important not to force things. We'll try anything, but if we don't find an organic way to use platforms that feels right to us, we're not going to do it just to do it. I think playlisting is a big one for us right now. We've got Pigeons & Planes playlists on Spotify and Apple Music, but we're working on some ways to expand on that.
I'm not saying that a brand has to jump on every trend and every new platform. It's fine to ignore things and move how you want to move, but you can't get stuck in your ways and I think at least being aware of what new things are going on is important for any brand, even if you choose to opt out.
VS: It seems like creating genuine connections with rising artists has always been rooted within of the blog. Who are some artists you’ve developed these connections with over the years?
JM: There are so many, and those relationships are different with everyone. There are dozens of artists who I consider friends of the brand, but I'm personally a pretty private person, and most of the time when we're working with artists it's a professional relationship. I don't want to be one of those people who's just buddying up with artists and trying to be friends with everyone we cover—I don't expect that from an artist. If we like the music, we will cover it and support it and share it, and we're always down to talk with artists and try to come up with creative ways to work together.
Sometimes genuine connections happen naturally though and I love that because I love getting artists' perspective on things. Especially new music. I've found so much great music through recommendations from other artists.
VS: Looking ahead to a new decade, what can we expect from Pigeons and Planes?
JM: Right now, P&P is a small team. After a decade of pumping out content, we're beginning to step back and think about a sustainable plan for the brand. Whatever we do next, the goal will be to create bigger impacts instead of chipping away with tons of small things. As I get older, I realize that I'd rather do one thing really well than do 100 small things that hopefully add up.
At the end of 2019, so many cool opportunities came up and we've been quietly working really hard to bring some new things to life. There will be more experiences, more tangible things, and any content that we do create will be content we really care about.
VS: As you continue to diversify your work, what else can we expect from Jacob Moore?
JM: I have so many ideas and things I want to do. There are a couple of things I'm working on that will be more public that I'm not ready to talk about yet, but I'm also really interested in doing more behind-the-scenes work in music. I want to work more closely with artists and artist-friendly brands.
It's such a weird, exciting time for music and a great time to get creative and take risks. I'm all about taking risks in 2020—I know we're going to see some game-changing ideas in the next couple of years and the ones thinking completely outside the box are going to be the ones who create change. And there are a lot of things in the music industry that need to change soon, in my opinion.
VS: With 2020 off and running, who are some artists we should be paying attention to?
This question is also so hard for me to answer. There are so many. But some new favorites: Baby Keem, Jean Dawson, Deb Never, Kenny Mason, Brevin Kim, KennyHoopla, Tierra Whack, Jelani Aryeh, beabadoobee, UMI, David Wolves, binki, Chiiild, BEAM, UMI, Grip, Gracie Abrams, Choker, MAVI, 100 gecs, $NOT, BENEE... so many more, and a few I just discovered that we haven't covered yet but it's going to be a good year for new artists.
Follow Jacob on Twitter here and follow Pigeons & Planes here.